“Iran’s top nuclear scientist discusses the potential for a nuclear deal with the U.S.”, PBS NewsHour

Published March 10, 2021

By Reza Sayah, Mar 9, 2021

One of the most pressing foreign policy decisions facing the Biden administration is its promise to reenter the Iran nuclear deal, but the Biden team is confronting obstacles restarting talks. Special correspondent Reza Sayah spoke with Ali Akbar Salehi, Iran’s top nuclear scientist, to discuss the potential for a deal, why talks are deadlocked, and the country’s uranium enrichment program.

Judy Woodruff:

Of the most pressing foreign policy decisions facing the Biden administration is its promise to reenter the Iran nuclear deal, officially called the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, or JCPOA.

But the Biden team is confronting obstacles restarting talks.

Nick Schifrin introduces our revealing conversation today with Iran’s top nuclear scientist.
Nick Schifrin:

The 2015 nuclear deal made a fundamental trade. The West relieved sanctions on Iran, and Iran froze its nuclear program.

When the Trump administration withdrew, it reimposed sanctions. And Iran has exceeded some of the deal’s nuclear limits and also restricted required inspections.

The Biden administration and Europe have offered to negotiate with Iran, but Iran refuses until those sanctions are relieved.

That is the context for our Reza Sayah, who sat down for a rare interview with Iran’s nuclear program head.

Reza joins us from Tehran.

Reza, first, the political context. The U.S. says it is waiting for Iran to suggest the next diplomatic steps. What’s Iran say?
Reza Sayah:

Tehran is essentially saying, Washington, you’re the one that pulled out of the nuclear deal. You’re the one that undermined the agreement, where five other countries were involved, the deal that took two years to hammer out. It is your move. The ball is in your court.

Tehran is looking for some sanctions relief. It is important to point out that, initially, during Donald Trump’s maximum pressure campaign, Tehran was saying all sanctions must be lifted.

Now they’re clearly saying they’d be fine with a step-by-step process, whereby Washington would ease some sanctions, and then Iran would make a move. Even that hasn’t resolved things. And that’s why we’re still in this stalemate.
Nick Schifrin:

And the U.S. says it won’t make that first step yet. So that is the stalemate. That is the context for your interview, the head of the Atomic Energy Association of Iran, Ali Akbar Salehi.

Who is he, and what did he say?
Reza Sayah:

Yes, he is Iran’s nuclear chief, an important figure with Iran’s leadership. He’s been part of the leadership for a very long time, one of the supreme leader’s most trusted advisers.

When the nuclear deal was negotiated in 2013-2014, he was very involved with the technical aspects. And like many Iranian leaders, he felt the bite and the impact of former President Donald Trump’s maximum pressure campaign.

You would think that he would be happy that Donald Trump is no longer the president. But that wasn’t exactly the case.
Reza Sayah:

My guess is, when Mr. Joe Biden was elected president, it pleased you.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Do you read minds?
Reza Sayah:

I’m guessing.

(LAUGHTER)
Ali Akbar Salehi:

You’re guessing.
Reza Sayah:

Were — OK. Were you pleased when Mr. Biden was elected president?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

This is not a matter of — personal matter of being pleased or not pleased. We look at the — what the, really, actions are.
Reza Sayah:

But you saw Mr. Trump’s actions, and my impression is, you wanted someone else in office.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

But so far that Mr. Biden has come, though he has promised to sort of come back to the JCPOA, but he has not yet delivered to that promise.
Reza Sayah:

He has not delivered, from your point of view, but Mr. Biden has said he wants to restore the deal, and he wants to talk. Iran says: We don’t want to talk.

Isn’t this the opportunity that Iran was looking for?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Well, yes, the answer is that the one who has left the JCPOA has to come back first.
Reza Sayah:

But the Biden administration is saying they don’t want to negotiate the deal. They just want to discuss the mechanism, the sequencing with which both sides can restore the deal.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Why do we want to complicate the issue?

(CROSSTALK)
Reza Sayah:

Because the issue is complicated. Why not talk?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

No, it is not as — not, it’s not really complicated.

We have already the deal, the JCPOA deal. It’s a deal that was negotiated for over two years. And the U.S. administration at one time felt that they want to leave the deal. You are the one who has left the deal, and you have to come back to the deal, and then we sit on the table within the framework of the 5-plus-one and talk whatever issues that are deemed to be talked about.
Reza Sayah:

While we’re at this deadlock, Iran’s nuclear program is increasingly active. You’re enriching more uranium. You’re using advanced centrifuges. You’re restricting IAEA inspections.

This is no longer about the nuclear deal and the needs of your country. You are clearly pressuring the Biden administration.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

You see, this issue, the nuclear deal is — it’s better to say the fabricated or manufactured issue of the nuclear deal, Iranian nuclear deal.

It is a technical issue, but it is politicized.
Reza Sayah:

Right.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

So, it seems we have to use political instruments to resolve.

Answering your question, I would like to say that we have not restricted the IAEA inspections in Iran. But the other part of the voluntary agreement that we had committed ourselves within the JCPOA, and that was the additional protocol, those, we have put aside.
Reza Sayah:

Part of the additional protocol was cameras. There’s cameras monitoring…
Ali Akbar Salehi:

The cameras are still there.
Reza Sayah:

Cameras are still there.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Yes. Those will keep on recording whatever they want to record.

But the IAEA will not have access to the information. For up to three months, if the JCPOA is back, they will be given the administration.
Reza Sayah:

And if not, you said you’re going to trash them.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

If not, yes.
Reza Sayah:

And with trashing them, are you not trashing verification and transparency? Is that not what you would be doing?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

It is easy to resolve the issue. Come back to the JCPOA, and not let this happen.
Reza Sayah:

Iran is piling up enriched uranium, I think you’re up to 3,000 kilograms, around there, if I’m not mistaken.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Well, it depends how you measure it. If you measure it in pure uranium, it’s about 2,500 kilograms, to the best of my latest information.
Reza Sayah:

And you plan on moving forward with enriched uranium?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Yes.
Reza Sayah:

If there’s a deal, if the deal is…
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Then everything stops. We go back to what we were…
Reza Sayah:

What do you do with the excess enriched uranium?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Then we can settle that. We can sell it. We can turn it into something that would be of mutual agreement, like into fuel.
Reza Sayah:

Last month, the IAEA said it verified the presence of 3.6 grams of uranium metal at a plant in Isfahan.

Can you explain why uranium metal was produced in Isfahan?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

They are looking for new fuel, OK, that would increase the efficiency of the reactor.

They have sort of propagated this in such a way as if we are producing metal in larger scale for the purpose of keeping the metal.
Reza Sayah:

For the core of the nuclear bomb. That’s what your critics are saying.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Yes, the metal has many uses.
Reza Sayah:

Right.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

One use is non-peaceful uses. That, we agree. But it has other peaceful uses.
Reza Sayah:

Accusations that Iran is secretly building a bomb have persisted. They’re still there.

Your government, the supreme leader has always said this is a peaceful nuclear program. They have said nuclear bonds are haram.

But many argue that nuclear deterrence is effective. The superpowers have it. Israel has a program, many believe, that it hasn’t been declared. Is there anyone within the government that says, let’s discuss it, let’s discuss the possible benefits of a bomb?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

No.

You see, the final wording on this is by the supreme leader. Once the supreme leader has issued the fatwa, that fatwa is not only a religious fatwa, but it is something, a decree.
Reza Sayah:

And that means there’s not even a discussion? There’s not a meeting that says…
Ali Akbar Salehi:

No, there’s room for discussion.
Reza Sayah:

There’s no room for discussion?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

There’s no — that’s right.
Reza Sayah:

But no one can say, let’s, for our security…
Ali Akbar Salehi:

It’s not that no one can say. You can speak your mind. I mean, you can you speak whatever you wish.

But, in reality, when it comes to action, we do what the fatwa says. We do what the decree says.
Reza Sayah:

Are there people within the government and the leadership who think it’s a good idea to go after a bomb?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

There may be. I don’t know.
Reza Sayah:

There may — but you don’t know? You haven’t heard them?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

No. No. No.
Reza Sayah:

What makes a nuclear bomb haram and-long range missiles not haram?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Long-range missiles, you hit the places that you wish to hit.

But nuclear bomb, as it was used in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, inflicted harm on innocent people; 200,000 lives were evaporated in matters of seconds.
Reza Sayah:

Mr. Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, he was your colleague, one of Iran’s leading scientists. He was assassinated.

Does it make you question Iran’s security structure? Like, how could this happen on your soil?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

This is not a very complicated issue.

If you want to kill somebody, they can always hire some people to kill somebody. And the…
Reza Sayah:

You, your government, accuse Israel of carrying out the assassination…

(CROSSTALK)
Ali Akbar Salehi:

Certainly, it is Israel, yes…
Reza Sayah:

Yes.
Ali Akbar Salehi:

… with the support of the United States.
Reza Sayah:

Something they both deny or haven’t commented on.

Do you worry about your own safety?
Ali Akbar Salehi:

I don’t worry about it, because we believe in destiny. Destiny is in the hands of God.

Eventually, we have to die, sooner or later. OK. You die as a martyr, so much the better.
Judy Woodruff:

Fascinating interview.

That was special correspondent Reza Sayah in Tehran.

PBS NewsHour

“Iran’s top nuclear scientist discusses the potential for a nuclear deal with the U.S.”, PBS NewsHour

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